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Poseidons Guide " Building orders "

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#1 XpT_Monkz


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Posted 15 January 2007 - 06:22 PM


I wonít focus on build orders at all as all you want are really there, in his guide. Iíll try and go through more tactics and what you can do in various situations vs. various civs.

Poseidons strength lies in his ability to raid, and raid early. People have suggested that Poseidon is a rushing civ before (difference being raiding is just attacking villagers so you age faster than him or have a better econÖ..rushing basically trying to destroy the enemy very quickly) presumably because he has Ares, but I think this is a waste really.

Poseidons strongest unit is the hippikon which takes a long time to produce, and because of that I donít think flat out rushes will work with hipps (they take too long too produce) and making hops and tox is basically a waste on Poseidons strengths.

Cavalry Raid

I think this strategy is best reserved for Norse and perhaps Greek opponents, on high hunting maps. It is possible to pull of vs. eggy and atl, but you will have to have some very high hunting, and be able to go classic and sustain an attack very, very early.
Like I said, Iím not going to go through any build orders of sorts, Iíll let you guys work out/copy that for yourself, hehe. But if youíre going to be going for a QUICK cavalry rush, then youíre going to want to be in classic at about 4.40, obviously going hermes.. IMO, any quicker is simply too early and you wonít be able to sustain your attack, and any slower the shock element of attacking this quickly is gone (unless youíre attempting this vs. eggy or atl on an insanely high hunting map ). The idea is to stop them getting their buildings up, or killing villagers.

A very easy thing to do is go to different areas of hunting every now and again, even if with just a few cav. Remember that killing villagers is obviously the best, but when villagers are running away they arenít working either, so just distracting can be effective. Obviously if you are threatening your enemies hunting enough he isnít going to hunt anymore, using up his wood to make farms and setting him back in economy even more.

Now, after 8-10 minutes or so, will be about the point where your enemyís economy is hurting but he perhaps has towers up and counters to your cav. The key here to lose as few units as possible, any units you lose are going to need replacing. Sounds easy, but can be easily done if you ensure you DO NOT engage the enemy unless you are sure you will hurt him a lot more than he can hurt youÖ..such as your 6 hipps vs. 3 ulfs, that is worth a fight, as you will kill all 3 perhaps losing only 1 hipp, if not any.

So, if all went well, you are in a situation where you have quite a large army, and a much better economy than your enemy. Now is where you need to fully take advantage. Some players try and end the game right here, which I find is suicideÖ.like I said your enemy is going to have counters, perhaps towers, and other buildings to protect from your hipps.
I think from here you basically have two choices:
a) Gain control of the map fully. Raiding does in a sense give you map control, in that someone being heavily raided wonít be able to come out of his base safely. Your heavy raids will almost definitely have made your enemy sit in his base, as he will be afraid you will come again. So, while he is probably not looking, you can take the two forward tcs.

Try not to engage, as he presumably has hippikon counters and even if you win the battle you will lose more than he does. If you can gain the tcs you can then take your own 2nd and boom, then start creating all types of military building and go heroic, to finish him off with siege. And yes, I know I make it sound oh so simple hehe, but thereís too many things that may go wrong to go through them all .

Try to finish the game ASAP. To do this, you will have to advance to heroic and get siege soon, and throw up some other buildings (usually ranges) to create anti cav counters. This I find a lot more risky, and I would say only works vs. norse and sometimes greek. Eggy bases just donít die easily, and unless you did a very good job of keeping him off gold he will have enough spearmen and spare gold to kill your siege, and your hipps will get eaten up by his free IMBA IMBA IMBA towers.

If the raiding fails, (he goes up quicker than youÖor counters you too quickly or gets crennelations too quickly) donít, donít, donít try and raid him anyway lol. It really wonít work if the enemy has enough military units already, and towers. The thing to do is to try and run around keeping him in his base, while not actually engaging in anything. Obviously, this wonít really kill and vills or distract any, but it will often keep your enemies units around his base while you take your 2 tcs and try to boom. While your booming you will need to create some ranges and barrack to produce whatever counters are necessary.

As for going heroic, donít bother until youíre at villager limit. If your raiding failed, youíre on the back foot. And unless youíve got some uber base defence (hello eggy) ageing up will only result in you dieing, you have to get some military to defend yourself and if possible attack a bit. I think too many people lose games going heroic when there really is no need too, the main reason in vanilla was to take tcs and boom, which you can do in classic anyway. The only exception to this would be vs. atlanteans (which is unusual to do a cav rush vs. anyway) as greek counter units (peltast,hypaspist in particular) are MUCH more effective vs. the almost always atlantean counter unit army (chiero/kata/turma).

3 TC Boom (aka faggish piece of bs op imba greek cheese)
As the title may perhaps suggest, some people feel this strategy is overpowered. Personally I donít see how a strategy that involves massing villagers is particularly overpowered compared to 8 prometheans in 9 minutes, but there we are.
This strategy is always best reserved for low food maps, primarily oasis. The counter to a boom is a fast rush, which is simply not possible on a map with low hunting. Uh, the premise of this strategy is very simple, you take your 2 TCís ASAP and boom like s*** from both of them, while making only as much army as is needed.

Obviously the amount of army you make depends on the extent of the rush, if any, you receive. Therefore scouting is vital in this strategy, and itís something I often forget to do or not do very well, which costs me games. Whereas this strategy is much safer on a low food map, it is still viable on high food maps. Itís very possible vs. eggy, as however hard they try they canít touch you early, any barrack units can easily be negated by getting tower upgrade and anubites by your heroes.
Anyway, you donít want to be advancing until around 6 minutes, as you want to have around 8 on wood and 5 on gold when you reach classic, with the pickaxe/handaxe upgrades. As soon as you hit classic, you should have plenty of wood, enough to make a TC, and your 2nd hero (along with your first before) with some left over to start making your 3rd later. You really need both your heroes to stave off any early attack, as towers can take care of most units early game (only upgrade them if you need, not as default) and the heroes can act as meat for the towers and kill any muís that obviously arenít going to die so easily to towers.

Once you have your tcs up and running, now is the time to make military buildings (lol), unless the attacks were so extensive early on you were forced to make one. As you have 3 tcs, and will reach max vill limit in no time, spam buildings like crap. 2 or 3 of each type of buildings is fine, once you reach pop limit which really wonít be too long, you will be able to spam from all of these. As with the failing cavalry rush, there is no need to go heroic early. If all goes well then you will have an uber economy and probably have a reasonably good heroic time anyway (even spamming units you will have resources left over ). Make sure to get the economy and military upgrades before going heroic however.

I think medit varies a lot from the other 3 water maps. The aim on medit is always to win the water, I really donít think itís worth it in any circumstance to ignore fighting the water, unless of course your enemy isnít in which case you should just make a few ships to stop his fishing and leave it at that. You want to be going up at around 5-5.30 with 3 docks, or 4.40 if youíre going 2 dock and Aresí pestilence. Personally, I prefer the more standard 5.30 3 dock strategy, and use the autoqueue on the triremes, it really helps as water fights require much more micro than land battles (imo), or at least it is much more useful.

When you get classic, put around 5 more vills on wood and 3 or 4 more on gold, then start putting more on food. The goal here is to have around 8 or so triremes and keep his fishing at bay (if he doesnít make arrow shipsÖ.if he does obviously aim for them) and reach heroic at 9.30 or earlier if possible with Dionysus.

Then, along with the free syclla, you can make another one maybe and siege ships, which should allow you to win the water easily. As you won the water, you should be able to forward build on one side, and wall off the other (forward build by the shore, so you can keep the enemy away with your ships until you get a decent enough land army).
I will usually leave the water on this map, and raid asap. If the enemy is trying to kill your fishing with only a few ships then donít let him do it that easily, and build the same number to push him back. The only time the water may be worth fighting is in heroic, with your free syclla and a few ramming galleys or siege ships to kill your enemies docks.
Highland & Anatolia
I think building forward on these maps is the best thing to do. Highland because if you build on the side of the water you control, a few triremes will mean your enemy will not be able to kill your forward. These 2 maps also bare the most unusual Poseidon strategy which iíve found does surprisingly work well when you are able to build forward, going straight out hops and tox, with no cav. Cav are only really needed vs. atlanteans in minimal numbers, to take out cherios. Do not fight the water on Anatolia, and only do it on highland if he is trying to take your side. Even if he does try too, you should often be able to take out his dock with your land units before he is able to do anything.

As is often the case, do not go heroic until you have established map control, taking the tcs and spamming buildings is key on Anatolia in particular, simply put whoever controls anatolias middle wins (unless your vs. an isis FTíerÖ.for information on how to beat that refer to the how to be a violent thug to twats guide, armed with a baseball bat), as all the gold is in the middle and trade is not very effective on Anatolia at all.

Obviously, these arenít the only strategiesÖ. Many times you wonít use either and more of a combination of the two land ones. I think this is certainly Poseidons most effective water strategy however.

I didnít go into much depth on how to play vs. particular civs as I could have done maybe, so if you have any questions then ask and maybe Iíll edit them inÖ..

ps buy lifehouse Ė no name face k thx.

I like this guide. I find though when I use poseidon vs. any atlantean civ (even Gaia) I'm at a severe disadvantage. Even a bronzed hippikon army dies vs turma/murmillo/promethean with ONE katapelte in there.

Yeah greek classic units have a severe disadvantage vs atlanteans. Obviously the intent of greek classic units is to be strong, but cost more pop/resources. Atlantean counter units are basically expensive, and very effective counters to whatever they counter, and thus completely negate the fact greek units are strong, as all your army as a greek will be easily counterable. The fact atlanteans have the best all round unit in the game in the murmillo doesnít help either, archers donít really counter it very well due to itís high speed and HPís and cav or inf arenít too effective either. The only advise I can give really is too try and stay under your home towers and by walls, or if youíre forward a little (such as holding a gold mineÖ.which is KEY vs atlanteans) and get to heroic age as soon as possible once you have secured an additional large mine. If you try to get heroic before, unless itís a straight out FH (which will probably die anyway to such early raiding) itís suicide, as you really need the 500 gold to spend on units to secure the gold mine which will become so critical later.

Once you get heroic your counter units are stronger than atlanteans, and I find unless they are spamming cherios (in which case you should obviously make some hippsÖ.) hypaspists and mass peltasts with as many Muís as possible do the job well. Muís suck late game vs atl due to free valor, but once their valors, they are very good, even if they serve only to force the atl player to waste resources on heroes.

The biggest thing that pisses me off about atl is their myth units, and how they can amass so many, so forcing them to make heroes uses their favour quite nicely. Obviously with peltasts having bonus damage vs archers they can kill hero turma quick quickly too (these are the biggest danger to heroes, any melee heroes can be ran away from and focused by other units).

I would like Fanta's opinion on Greek myth units. Specifically it seems that Hermes is a waste (Centaurs) since hippikon are raiders already. Pestilence seems much better, for taking out a migdol (fast heroic), or when the game is very close (If you can get 115 pop but an atlantean has total map control.. Pest his buildings and wipe him out)

Well it really depends on the map imo. Logically youíd think centaurs suck, as they die so quickly to hero turma, but if your mico is up to par (omfg I use for micro in aot?!??!) and lag is minimal, then you should be able to run them away before they die, and the hipps/hops (bonus vs turma) can engage the turma chasing it. Then no hero turma left and centaurs become useful again. Same can be done really for Cyclops or minos and to a certain extent itís easier as they have more HPís, but obviously they are a lot slower too.

On open maps (e.g. savanaah) I think Ares and Cyclops are next to uselessÖ.they wonít build forward and they will simply run away from any Cyclops they donít want to engage, and the fat bastards are so slow they canít do anything about it. I think Hermes would be better as also his ceasefire allows you to take your Ĺ additional TCís and if one is by a gold pit then youíre in business. As I said earlier Muís suck vs atlantean early game, unless they really are massed but get good once the valors run out (sadÖ..assuming all kronos/oranos will go promoetheusÖ.but there really is no choice )

It seems like greek players should almost autoque the bow-hero and hydras.. They're both roxor, and the bow-hero is needed almost the whole game.

Yep :] bow hero saves your ass vs atlanteans all the time, and hydras can serve as meatshields late game. Although I prefer Aphrodite almost all the time ;D

Hetaroi are total trash it seems. If I can afford to have 8 horses whacking on buildings, then the game is already in my favor.

yep I agreeÖ.only time I think they can be useful is for killing Isis monuments and allowing you to earthquake the titan gate :/.

Also it seems in mythic hippikon are too expensive.. Collosi & Helepolis eat gold like no tomorrow :/ so it seems Zeus the better choice late game.

Er, not sure I agree with you here. IMO hipps and tox are the best combo of any civ, in terms of how often they will work. It works vs almost any combo and the only units that give this combo trouble can be dealt with by hypaspists. Maybe they are expensive, but if you went Hermes/Dionysus they are certainly worth the gold and 3 pop. Maybe if you didnít go these two you might want to reconsiderÖ.but with no fast units (i.e. cav) you are left vulnerable to raiding which hurts a lot, even late game.

I also would say that on medit a late classic with 3 docks and timely use of pestilence is pretty good. I can amass enough arrow boats during a pestilence to really put a lot of damage into 1 enemy dock.

trueÖ.but why use a godpower to win the water when you can win it without one? also ceasefire is useful later in the game to nullify numerous GPís and obviously Hermes compliments Poseidons strong points.

Also I have hard time with poseidon vs Zeus on maps like alfheim. Tox/Minotaur combo is nasty

only suggestion is to raid him and try and force him to hang around at home, and not engage until you have access to hypaspists and your 3rd hero. If he doesnít hang around at home youíll have to spam towers at your hoe or something and continue to raid. One possible counter to that is centaurs and tox with a small hoplite meatshield. Obivously the cents can help the heroes take down the minos and with piercing damage are also effective vs hoplites.

Chaotic Tips:

1. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

2. Never get into fights with ugly people, they have nothing to lose.

3. With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.

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